Pete, I just went and watched that...wow! That's a new one on me...I guess now I don't have to set my neck angle as carefully! I'll just get it to where I can stick my little finger in between the f/b and top and putty it!!
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| "Neck Putty" - Taylor Guitars http://www-.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10102&t=7127 |
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| Author: | Pete Harrington [ Wed Jun 14, 2006 10:15 am ] |
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I was watching the most recent installment of Factory Fridays, Final Assembly. When they attached the neck, they applied putty at the fingerboard/soundboard joint and at the heel/side joint. Do any of you guys do this? I was kind of surprised at this. Pete |
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| Author: | L. Presnall [ Wed Jun 14, 2006 10:43 am ] |
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Pete, I just went and watched that...wow! That's a new one on me...I guess now I don't have to set my neck angle as carefully! I'll just get it to where I can stick my little finger in between the f/b and top and putty it!!
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| Author: | John Mayes [ Wed Jun 14, 2006 10:46 am ] |
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yep that is their "fix" for a neck joint that is not just tight in the pocket. I know it's gotta take some serious precision to get the neck to fit just right, but seems to me that the putty just makes things worse... |
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| Author: | L. Presnall [ Wed Jun 14, 2006 1:01 pm ] |
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You'd think all that $$$$$ invested in CNC's and FADAL's woulda paid off in not having to "fix" the neck joint...seems a little re-programming may be in order!! 
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| Author: | L. Presnall [ Wed Jun 14, 2006 1:02 pm ] |
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I mean heck, I can be off with just my eye and a chisel! And THAT'S cheap!
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| Author: | Pete Harrington [ Wed Jun 14, 2006 1:24 pm ] |
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Yeah, I was amazed. I've now got John's DVD set and have seen his neck joint up close, and I've seen all the precision work and care demonstrated in the wonderful pictures posted on this website and didn't realize it was an option to use a filler!! (not that I would settle, I'll still try to get my joints right ).
I don't know if using filler is standard operating procedure, but it must have taken some guts for Taylor to acknowledge it in any event. I think it just reinforces the level of skill that is demonstrated on this website by the members and hand builders in general; wow, what a marketing concept ... "I don't use filler!@!" Pete |
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| Author: | Kevin Gallagher [ Wed Jun 14, 2006 2:01 pm ] |
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Guys, They're filling a gap that is only .002" to .003" across with that putty. Take a look at any Taylor in a store and you will see what it is. Believe me, the programming used is precisely where it should be. With the movement of the adjacent wood components that interface at the point where body and neck meet on the new Taylors, there needs to be those few thousandths to avoid any adverse tension or pressure between them. Having worked as a CNC programmer and machinist for years, I can tell you that the programmers at Taylor are very talented and experienced. All of their jigs and work platforms are very cleverly and efficently designed and built to get as much work done in as few movements as possible. That's one of the primary goals when deciding on tool paths and machining steps in a program....the most work complete in the least amount of movement. I didn't think anything bad when I saw the putty srep in the final assembly process. I had a guitar from a very well known and revered builder brought into my shop for some set up work by a customer of mine. I was amazed at how really sloppy the neck joint was and the poor interface between the fingerboard tongue and top. No worries, though, since he just packed ot full of some weird brown colored wood putty to refine the joint. This customer really has very little knowledge of custom guitars and this builder saw him coming and took complete advantage of his lack of experience. I pointed out that the kerfing inside was pulled away from the sides in several long spots to its owner and he was concerned and asked the builder about it. The builder fudged through it with some lame explanation of how he uses a unique kerfing that is wider than what other less experienced builder are using and that it dint have to make full contact with the sides along its entire length. Besides that, he said that less contact allowed for more free vibration of the plates and that was part of his build strategy as well. Buyers beware as you venture into the world of custom guitar commissions. Taylor's use of an ultra thin line of putty is acceptable as far as I'm concerned since their customers are very happy with the new neck joint and are willing to live with that thin joint line. Bob's neck technology closes the curtain on neck stability and resets. This other builders use of and poor execution with his putty is unnacceptable as far as I can see...especially since he has a deeply established following. I've seen about a dozen guitars that he's built and all were very sloppy and looked as though they were built in a hurry and with little attention to detail. He's been building since the 70s and even his latest guitars look far worse than many I'm seeing built by guys just completing their first or second guitars. Don't ask who it is. I won't go as far as to divulge that information. Regards, Kevin Gallagher/Omega Guitars |
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| Author: | MSpencer [ Wed Jun 14, 2006 2:15 pm ] |
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I am sure that Taylor has this figured out and good reasons for doing it as well. It must be some hybrid new type of puddy with some unique qualities I would imagine. Probably can't pick up a tube at the local box store. Mike White Oak, Texas |
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| Author: | John K [ Wed Jun 14, 2006 2:39 pm ] |
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I can totally understand the putty used in such a slipjoint. That crack can move .002 inches with a change in humidity. I am wondering why there is no putty on the heel joint because I believe it is also let into a body mortise. |
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| Author: | John Mayes [ Wed Jun 14, 2006 3:32 pm ] |
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Kevin, Most of the neck joints on Taylors stuff are VERY nicely done, but I've seen numerous ones that had gaps of around .010-.040, but these were mainly on cutaway versions, and the small little section of body that is left on the cutaway side, I would image, would be much more apt to move with humidity and make the neck joint look bad. |
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| Author: | TonyKarol [ Wed Jun 14, 2006 11:24 pm ] |
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I have seen the putty on the bottom of the heels of Taylors - depending on the angle they need to set the neck to get the action just right, there can be a gap under the heel cap and into the pocket - they stuff the putty in there - I have seen as much as a 1/16 gap filled with the cream colored goop. Anohter thing a local Taylor repair guy told me was that he sometimes has to give the neck a good tap to get it loose if it needs a reset -the putty will sometimes take the finish with it around the FB extension - OUCH. |
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| Author: | L. Presnall [ Thu Jun 15, 2006 7:44 am ] |
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I'm going to buy a big caulk gun, and just go all "Gutter Man" on my necks from here!
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| Author: | CarltonM [ Thu Jun 15, 2006 8:48 am ] |
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[QUOTE=MSpencer] It must be some hybrid new type of puddy with some unique qualities I would imagine. [/QUOTE] Tone Putty!!! |
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| Author: | Michael Shaw [ Thu Jun 15, 2006 10:56 am ] |
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[QUOTE=John K] I can totally understand the putty used in such a slipjoint. That crack can move .002 inches with a change in humidity. I am wondering why there is no putty on the heel joint because I believe it is also let into a body mortise. [/QUOTE] John I believe they did use it on the heel joint also. I thought I seen her do that. Unless I'm seeing things |
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| Author: | Michael Shaw [ Thu Jun 15, 2006 12:02 pm ] |
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When I have that problem with necks I just reach for the container of spackle. Its great for hiding gaps and cracks. And it paints well. I figure by the time it drys out and crumbles away the guitar won't be in my hands anymore. When they come complaining I'll just play dumb. I just blame it on the corporate office and give them a number for the help desk in India.
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